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Need to Feel the Snape Love
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I guess the fans who misunderstood Snape on their first read are still nursing their wounds from the Snape Wars and doubling down on debunked theories. No one is going to change their minds at this point anyway.

I will say that Draco and Regulus were supposed to teach us something about Snape in the books, and that clearly went over the heads of the Snaters. Regulus couldn't save everybody, but he cared about Kreacher's suffering, and he sacrificed himself to destroy a Horcrux. Draco loved his parents, and didn't want Harry/Ron/Hermione dead even if he didn't like them. On the other hand, Ron didn't care about saving Draco and Goyle, and Harry is the one who attacked with Sectumsempra in the bathroom - a parallel with James, not Snape.

But as I say, at this point, none of the original Snape-haters will change their minds. The good news is that as future generations discover HP they will make up their own minds without the peer pressure of the big forums trying to persuade them down dead-end streets. At least I hope so! Smile

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05-16-2016 01:33 PM
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The Hare and the Otter Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(05-16-2016 01:33 PM)Silver Ink Pot Wrote:  I guess the fans who misunderstood Snape on their first read are still nursing their wounds from the Snape Wars and doubling down on debunked theories. No one is going to change their minds at this point anyway.

I will say that Draco and Regulus were supposed to teach us something about Snape in the books, and that clearly went over the heads of the Snaters. Regulus couldn't save everybody, but he cared about Kreacher's suffering, and he sacrificed himself to destroy a Horcrux. Draco loved his parents, and didn't want Harry/Ron/Hermione dead even if he didn't like them. On the other hand, Ron didn't care about saving Draco and Goyle, and Harry is the one who attacked with Sectumsempra in the bathroom - a parallel with James, not Snape.

Yes. All of this. The truth is there for those who can see it.
05-16-2016 04:58 PM
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The Hare and the Otter Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(05-14-2016 05:02 PM)Ellen Wrote:  The prophecy Snape heard specified that someone was approaching who would have the power to vanquish the Dark Lord (Voldemort's chosen title, though there have been others). This person would have a birthday at the end of July (if we stick with the Gregorian calendar) and would be born to parents who had defied "him" (assumed to mean the DL) three times.

Snape knew this was important and passed it on.

Did he know it meant Lily's child? In his excitement, did he think what Voldemort would do with this knowledge? Did he assume he would kill the child? My guess is not.

For that matter, was Lily's due date in August?

I agree with everything you have said in your post. However, Sev actually didn't know it was about a baby about to be born. All he heard (and passed on) was: "The one with power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies."

I go over this more in my rant about how Sev is not a sadist. [Smile] You might like it: http://theseassong.blogspot.com/2015/12/...adist.html
05-16-2016 07:07 PM
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Ellen Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I agree with everything you say.

I'd like to add my personal theory on what's happening with Trevor. It's important to remember that Snape suspects Lupin is a Death Eater and working with Sirius. We know that the evidence against Lupin was strong enough that Sirius admitted it was why he wasn't told about the switch in secret keeper. Snape has also long assumed that Lupin was in on the prank with Sirius as well as being involved in James and Sirius' bullying.

In other words, Snape sees Lupin's "nice guy" thing as just as act and probably considers it deliberately manipulative.

Lupin is about to have all the students--Neville included--face a boggart that will reveal their deepest fears. The teachers all know this. The boggart is in the staffroom and Lupin had asked that it be left there so he could show it to his third year class.

Snape also certainly knows the truth about Neville's parents. He knew Bellatrix and he knew the Longbottoms as members of the Order. There's no doubt that he knew the basics and quite possibly more.

So, Snape would have likely expected the boggart would take a form that would reveal Neville's secret. He actually took several steps to prevent this.

The first thing he does is have Neville use his potion from class on Trevor. He tells him he'll be doing this ahead of time. Between added stress and Neville's usual record with potions, Snape can expect something to go wrong--something that will take a while to fix, giving him an opportunity to delay Neville going to Lupin's class.

When that fails, he goes to the staff room. Snape knows Lupin is taking the class there. He has apparently rushed over from lunch so he can get there just ahead of the class appear to be casually reading in the staff room when they arrive.

When that happens, he makes pointed comments to Lupin that Lupin understands but the class doesn't. He tells Lupin that Neville Longbottom is in the class and advises him not to have Neville do this--but he is careful to not to say the real reason.

In Snape's mind, I believe questioning Neville's competency is a neutral act. Snape, unfortunately, discounts the effects of a lot of insults (although I'd point out that he balances a lot of this with a genuine desire to protect others from physical harm, regardless of the risk to himself). He does, however, keenly understand wanting to protect secrets built around personal pain and family suffering. That's what he's trying to spare Neville.

Lupin doesn't shield Neville from the boggart but he does prepare Neville so his greatest fear of the moment shifts and focuses on Snape. It should be noted, however, that Lupin deliberately keeps Harry from facing the boggart because he doesn't want the class dealing with what he assumes will be Harry's greatest fear. His thinking is actually fairly similar to Snape's when it comes to Harry. Also, like Snape, Lupin disregards how this may effect the student he's trying to protect.
05-26-2016 05:35 AM
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The Librarian Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I like the theory but Snape is unpleasant to Neville many other times. Thus, I don't think it was an act by Snape, just him being him. Still, demonising him using the boggart is pretty lame and is an indicator that people are grasping straws to validify their incorrect interpretations.

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06-02-2016 07:10 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(06-02-2016 07:10 PM)The Librarian Wrote:  I like the theory but Snape is unpleasant to Neville many other times. Thus, I don't think it was an act by Snape, just him being him. Still, demonising him using the boggart is pretty lame and is an indicator that people are grasping straws to validify their incorrect interpretations.

Snape is rough on everyone, not just Neville. And Lupin is terrible to Snape as well, making him a laughingstock with the boggart in an unprofessional manner. Lupin hasn't really changed much from early days with Snape.

Looking at Neville from Snape's point of view, he knows Bellatrix or Voldemort may come after him again someday, as well as Harry. Being sweet and sensitive is nice, but that won't help Neville or Harry survive.

There is even foreshadowing for Neville having to kill Nagini when Snape makes him "disembowel" toads as a detention. If Neville hadn't been able to overcome some of his fears, how could he have become the fighter that he was?

Also everyone please notice that this is the Snape Love thread, for positive comments about Snape only. If everyone wants to delve into the canon and have a debate, please do it on the Development of Snape's Character thread.

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(This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 02:55 AM by Silver Ink Pot.)
06-03-2016 02:51 AM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
Check this out - a powerful but very short story, illustrated.

http://hapticmimesis.deviantart.com/art/...-204582360

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07-09-2016 07:41 AM
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Ellen Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I was reading something on Mugglenet about why one person loves Hermione (no argument from me, I identify with nerdy girls). They mentioned how she stayed strong despite bullying from teachers and students. I tried to remember when teachers had bullied her. If we don't count Umbridge (who was a sort of universal, if-it-moves-bully-it teacher), that leaves Snape.

OK, I can see a case to be made. I won't go into that. I'll just go with one thing: Hermione doesn't treat Snape as a bully. Over the course of the books, Hermione cites things Snape has told them and defends him to the boys. She's the only one to be upset when they attack Snape in the Shrieking Shack (although, granted, she's upset that they've attacked a teacher and will be in so much trouble. But, still). Maybe I'm forgetting something but I can't think of one instance when Hermione sides with the boys (or not after she finds out she stopped Snape from trying to save Harry from Quirrel, who was the real villain).
07-14-2016 03:51 AM
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Malevolent_Bat Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(07-09-2016 07:41 AM)Silver Ink Pot Wrote:  Check this out - a powerful but very short story, illustrated.

http://hapticmimesis.deviantart.com/art/...-204582360

Oh wow. And the image... oh wow.

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07-14-2016 05:06 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
Check out this beautiful Snape gif from Pottermore - they posted it on Facebook with a message about "Story 8" - not sure if that means the Cursed Child or Newt Scamander, but love the animation!

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07-17-2016 07:52 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
Everyone will remember 2016 for all kinds of bad reasons!!!

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12-30-2016 02:54 AM
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Superman Offline
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Post: #132
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(06-03-2016 02:51 AM)Silver Ink Pot Wrote:  Snape is rough on everyone, not just Neville. And Lupin is terrible to Snape as well, making him a laughingstock with the boggart in an unprofessional manner. Lupin hasn't really changed much from early days with Snape.

Good, now Lupin is responsible of the consequences of Snape's inacceptable behaviour towards his student (and Neville in particular) ? Funny I don't remember having seen Lupin hexing Snape in front of school so enlight me please, how is it conceivable that a supposedly respectable teacher such as "Prince Snape" is the boggart of one of his student ?

The truth is, Lupin clearly saw what kind of person was Snape as an adult through the shameful attitude he had towards Neville. By what right did Snape come publicly humiliate one of Lupin's student in his own class ? Is he above the rules (he might be some god to you but guess what that's only in your head) ? Lupin acted as a good teacher allowing Neville, his student to whom he was responsible to fight back against his persecutor.

Snape's worshipper doesn't like it when their golden boy is put in his place but there was nothing wrong here. Just a great teacher who helped one of his student while teaching an important lesson to his class.
06-04-2017 03:30 PM
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subtle science Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
Lupin's an amazingly poor teacher--thoroughly unqualified for the job, obviously; it's actually interesting to consider that he's a foil, in some ways, for Snape. Both of them got the jobs from Dumbledore because Dumbledore was giving them shelter--and had an agenda.

But, I am led astray from actual literary analysis because my curiosity is piqued by this thing you mention: a church of Snape? Is this like the satirical Flying Spaghetti Monster? Can we get drivers' licenses? Do the High Holy Days involve chocolate? (because I'd REALLY like that religion! It's definitely a plus factor in the spring, now, when Christian Easter rolls around) Can we get a day off work? I'm not sure about the black robes, if that's the dress code--loose and flowing: check; black: err....rough in summer, especially in the warmer climates.

What we call the beginning is often the end
And to make an end is to make a beginning.
The end is where we start from.
--T. S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"

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Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (King James Version, Matthew 25: 37-40)
06-04-2017 08:01 PM
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Superman Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(06-04-2017 08:01 PM)subtle science Wrote:  Lupin's an amazingly poor teacher--thoroughly unqualified for the job, obviously; it's actually interesting to consider that he's a foil, in some ways, for Snape. Both of them got the jobs from Dumbledore because Dumbledore was giving them shelter--and had an agenda.


Hum.. You must have missed some big points of the book--if you read it obviously.

His work is highly recognized by his student.

"You're the best Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher we've ever had!" said Harry. "Don't go!"

Harry Potter and the Prisonner of Azkaban.

Professor Umbridge talked over him. 'I do not wish to criticise the way things have been run in this school,' she said, an unconvincing smile stretching her wide mouth, 'but you have been exposed to some very irresponsible wizards in this class, very irresponsible indeed--not to mention,' she gave a nasty little laugh, 'extremely dangerous half-breeds.'

'If you mean Professor Lupin,' piped up Dean angrily, 'he was the best we ever--


Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

He is highly respected/considered among his peers :

'Were you?' said Professor McGonagall haughtily. 'Well, Potter,' she continued, as though there had been no interruption, 'if you are serious in this ambition, I would advise you to concentrate hard on bringing your Transfiguration and Potions up to scratch. I see Professor Flitwick has graded you between "Acceptable" and "Exceeds Expectations" for the last two years, so your Charmwork seems satisfactory. As for Defence Against the Dark Arts, your marks have been generally high, Professor Lupin in particular thought you--are you quite sure you wouldn't like a cough drop, Dolores?'

'Yes, as I was saying, Potter, Professor Lupin thought you showed a pronounced aptitude for the subject, and obviously for an Auror--'

'I should have made my meaning plainer,' said Professor McGonagall, turning at last to look Umbridge directly in the eyes. 'He has achieved high marks in all Defence Against the Dark Arts tests set by a competent teacher.'

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

Jo pointed out that Harry made huge progress in DADA during his time as Lupin's student in PoA.

Q: If Harry had a magic duel with Hermione, who would win ? (Doyle Srader, Nacogdoches, TX)
A: Very good question! Because until about halfway through Azkaban, Hermione would have won. But Harry - without anyone really noticing it - is becoming exceptionally good at Defence Against the Dark Arts. So that's the one area in which, almost instinctively, he is particularly talented. Apart from Quidditch.



In all I case you deserve my congratulation, You and Umbridge are on the same level of credibility. Big Grin
06-05-2017 06:08 PM
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subtle science Offline
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Post: #135
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I like how you attack me--that's always a great approach to literary analysis: make sure you insult the other person. That way, you can avoid any rational, civil discourse.

You're such an obvious type--just trying to start a fight, because....well....who knows why this is how you spend your time. Go get a job. And a life.

What we call the beginning is often the end
And to make an end is to make a beginning.
The end is where we start from.
--T. S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"

[Image: sittingcat_zpsn1blmxfj.png]


Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (King James Version, Matthew 25: 37-40)
06-05-2017 06:52 PM
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Superman Offline
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Post: #136
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
(06-05-2017 06:52 PM)subtle science Wrote:  I like how you attack me--that's always a great approach to literary analysis: make sure you insult the other person. That way, you can avoid any rational, civil discourse.

You're such an obvious type--just trying to start a fight, because....well....who knows why this is how you spend your time. Go get a job. And a life.

Don't make me laugh, that forum is full of implied jibes towards people who are not part of your worshipping group. I'm only replicating the kind of post what I've seen on this site which obviously didn't seem to faze you at the time.

Now you may be embarassed but I'm not responsible of your silly choice to respond to one of my post on a subject you don't even master and more importantly which isn't adressed to you. I'm not used to interact with people foolish enough to act that way although reading your answer make its more obvious.
06-05-2017 07:20 PM
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subtle science Offline
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Post: #137
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
I'm not embarrassed. As to the rest of your answer: please review, rewrite, and translate it, or get someone who can help you with it. Although, no matter what, your main point is still, obviously, an attempt to start a fight--not to discuss anything, at all. Go to bed.

What we call the beginning is often the end
And to make an end is to make a beginning.
The end is where we start from.
--T. S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"

[Image: sittingcat_zpsn1blmxfj.png]


Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (King James Version, Matthew 25: 37-40)
06-08-2017 12:58 AM
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Ellen Offline
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Post: #138
RE: Need to Feel the Snape Love
Just to change the subject--

It was pointed out to me last night that Snape was the only Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher Harry had who never tried to kill him/cause enough mental damage to leave him permanently institutionalized.

1. Quirrell/Voldemort tried to kill Harry at the end of the first year.

2. Lockhart tried to erase his memory (since Lockhart was still in St. Mungo's years later, we can assume that's what would have happened to Harry and Ron).

3. Lupin didn't mean to but he did attempt to eat Harry and his friends on the night of the full moon.

4. Barty Jr/Moody sent Harry to Voldemort.

5. Umbridge sent dementors after Harry at the beginning of the fifth year.

And an honorably mention for the Carrows. They may never have been official teachers for Harry, but they still had plenty of lethal intentions.
06-17-2017 08:43 PM
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