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Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie(s)
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JoTwo Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
The reference to Dumbledore being Newt's teacher might allow us to work out an approximate date for when he started working at Hogwarts. According to the real life Fantastic Beasts book Newt was born in 1897. So he would have started school in 1908 at the earliest. As he was "kicked out" then he left before the end of 7th year, which was 1915.

On Twitter JKR said that Albus could not stop Newt's expulsion because he was then "a young teacher". So I reckon that this means that Dumbledore started teaching earlier in his life rather than later, in the first or second decade of the 20th century, depending on how long he taught Newt for.

We can also infer from the comment about him being young that JKR is still using the date for Dumbledore's birth that appeared on the Chocolate Frog Card on her old website, which was 1881. Someone born in that year would be 27 in 1908. I don't think Albus's age is established in the books but as late as the publication of Half-Blood Prince JKR was still claiming in interviews that Dumbledore was approximately 150. Someone about 150 would not be "young" at the start of 20th century. So this latest revelation backs up the revised birth date.

While this all seems to fit together it does have a knock on effect that may alter canon. In Half-Blood Prince when Dumbledore is trying to persuade Slughorn to return to teaching he explicitly says:

'You're not yet as old as I am, Horace'.

Later Molly says of Slughorn:

'He was at Hogwarts for ages, started around the same time as Dumbledore, I think'.

So if Dumbledore could have been as young as 27 in 1908 how much younger was Horace? Did he start teaching as a toddler? Big Grin

I suppose a get out clause could be that Molly is mistaken that Slughorn and Dumbledore joined Hogwarts at a similar time.

Ironically, the real life Fantastic Beasts was published in 2001 with a foreword by Albus Dumbledore, who was still alive. Which in terms of how far the books' storyline had progressed makes sense because it was between Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix. But if you go by the official timeline endorsed by JKR then by 2001 Dumbledore was dead. She put his death as 1996 on the real Chocolate Frog Card (although someone pointed out that this was probably a mistake as although Half-Blood Prince is considered to start in 1996 the academic year is 1996-97 and Dumbledore dies in the summer term, which is 1997).

I don't believe JKR ever had a detailed timeline worked out, just a general idea of when things happened e.g. Voldemort was a teenager roughly 50 years before Harry stated school. It was fans who extrapolated dates for various events backwards and forwards from the specific date of Nearly Headless Nick's Death Day party being in 1992. I think JKR just accepted it retrospectively. Which is no big deal, really, as imagination trumps having all the exact dates worked out.

Which of course means I am wasting my time with this speculation. But it's fun. Big Grin
04-13-2016 10:20 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
I'm not great with timelines - the only one I can always remember correctly is that of the Marauders and Harry. JKR had a pretty clear outline originally with most of the Marauders and Snape born in 1960 (Sirius 1959), starting Hogwarts together in 1971, and Harry born 20 years later in 1980, James and Lily die in 1981, then Harry starts Hogwarts with his friends in 1991. Then Voldemort dies 7 years later.

If she had just based everything on that, it would be so simple, but for some reason she messed up Dumbledore's age, and now she's tied him to Newt as well.

I've been working on the newest version of the HP Lexicon and we are grappling with this new canon, so I'll let you know what we come up with eventually.

Newt's timeline is based on Fantastic Beasts and now the movie, which wouldn't be canon except that JKR wrote the screenplay, plus she also tweeted about him being thrown out of Hogwarts.

04-15-2016 08:13 AM
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JoTwo Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
(04-15-2016 08:13 AM)Silver Ink Pot Wrote:  I'm not great with timelines - the only one I can always remember correctly is that of the Marauders and Harry. JKR had a pretty clear outline originally with most of the Marauders and Snape born in 1960 (Sirius 1959), starting Hogwarts together in 1971, and Harry born 20 years later in 1980, James and Lily die in 1981, then Harry starts Hogwarts with his friends in 1991. Then Voldemort dies 7 years later.

If she had just based everything on that, it would be so simple, but for some reason she messed up Dumbledore's age, and now she's tied him to Newt as well.

I've been working on the newest version of the HP Lexicon and we are grappling with this new canon, so I'll let you know what we come up with eventually.

Newt's timeline is based on Fantastic Beasts and now the movie, which wouldn't be canon except that JKR wrote the screenplay, plus she also tweeted about him being thrown out of Hogwarts.

I really prefer Dumbledore being born in 1881. That way he meets Grindelwald in 1899. This was the colonial era. Rudyard Kipling even wrote the poem The White Man's Burden in 1899. It's a poem that tries to justify imperialism by claiming that being ruled by westerners improves the lives of the natives, even though they often don't appreciate this. (Of course colonialism was mainly about exploiting the people and natural resources of countries so no wonder the ruled weren't that happy about it.) So these sort of ideas of conquest and seeing other people as inferior races were going around at that time and it would fit Dumbledore believing wizard dominance was FOR THE MUGGLES OWN GOOD.

Also 4 years earlier Oscar Wilde was on trial so that might worry a gay teenager who lived in a half Muggle area and put him off Muggles.

So the 1881 date means Albus comes of age when things happening in real life give depth to the fictional world.
04-19-2016 08:32 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
Fantastic Beasts script will be published as a book sometime this year:

https://www.pottermore.com/news/fantasti...nouncement

05-01-2016 09:47 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
On Pottermore, J.K. Rowling has posted the lengthy "Magical History of the United States."

https://www.pottermore.com/collection-ep...america-en

I knew it would be somewhat of a mess because she can't keep the dates straight for her own country.

But as I was reading it something kept nagging me and suddenly I realized she made a big error with "MACUSA" or the Magical Congress of the United States.

She states on Pottermore:

Quote:Perhaps the most significant effect of Salem was the creation of the Magical Congress of the United States of America in 1693, pre-dating the No-Maj version by around a century. Known to all American witches and wizards by the abbreviation MACUSA (commonly pronounced as: Mah – cooz – ah), it was the first time that the North American wizarding community came together to create laws for themselves, effectively establishing a magical-world-within-a-No-Maj-world such as existed in most other countries.

Here's the problem - there were no "United States" in 1693. There were 13 colonies plus French and British Canada, and the rest of the continent was Native American territory being fought over by the French, Spanish, and British.

Doing some research, it is thought that Thomas Paine coined the phrase "United States" in a pamphlet in 1776, but the first time it was widely known was in July 1776 when the United States was formed with the signing of the Declaration of Independence. There were no states and no one was really "united" until then.

06-28-2016 02:55 AM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
New Fantastic Beasts trailer showing some of the actual creatures escaping.





A few more details about the creatures, but nothing confirmed, from Pottermore:
https://www.pottermore.com/news/19-thing...on-trailer

(This post was last modified: 07-24-2016 12:43 AM by Silver Ink Pot.)
07-24-2016 12:04 AM
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JoTwo Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
JKR has announced at the global fan event on 13 October that Fantastic Beasts is no longer a trilogy: it is now going to be five films.

Also Grindelwald is mentioned in the released film footage and David Yates said he will have a more prominent role in future films.

My first thought was that maybe they do need to do five films as if Grindelwald's rise is significant then they could be covering the time period 1926 to 1945.

However I am not sure that I am keen on the films covering the World War II era, if that is what they plan to do. World War II is too serious a subject to be used as the backdrop for a fantasy film series and I do not think JKR should co-opt this period of history. I hope they do not claim something like Hitler was Grindelwald's puppet and he was the real architect of the Holocaust or the war. That would be tasteless.

Another lesser thing that makes me hope that they are not going up to 1945 is that we already know that Grindelwald was defeated in a duel by Dumbledore. If this is the climax of the films then this detracts from Newt being the hero.

My second thought is that five films might be JKR getting carried away again. After all the Cursed Child was supposed to be one play and ended up as two. Even the books were a seven part series, which is unusually lengthy for most book series. I do wonder if there really is enough storyline for five films or whether it is a case of JKR putting in unnecessary padding and not having an editor willing to say that less is more and actually edit due to JKR being so famous that anything she writes being a guaranteed success.

I also feel that Warner Bros are probably delighted at the idea of five films instead of three because they want to screw as much money as possible out of the franchise rather than because it is needed for any artistic reason. So they are not going to stop JKR.

I had wondered previously if Grindelwald was going to be a villain in the FB films. I did like the idea because what little we saw of Grindelwald in the Deathly Hallows made him seem like he would be an entertaining villain, zany rather than creepy like Voldemort. Wacky villains are very popular in films e.g. the Joker, so this would fit.

No-one is listed as Grindelwald in the cast list but allegedly the back of a head appears in the film footage shown at the fan event, which may be his.

My fantasy casting for Gellert is a British actor called John Simm. He played the Master in Doctor Who opposite David Tennant as the Doctor. I imagined Grindelwald behaving in a similar way to how the Master behaved in the story The Last of the Time Lords.

However I have no idea who really has been cast.
10-15-2016 06:50 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
Because the first Fantastic Beasts film starts in the 1920s, I always wondered if the plan was to end with WWII, so I'm not that surprised.

But making five films out of it really did surprise me. She must have come up with some new ideas for Grindelwald, and since he is a parallel to Voldemort on a world-wide scale, it makes sense that Newt might come into contact with him somehow.

10-18-2016 04:46 AM
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RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
Now that Fantastic Beasts is coming out soon I thought it might be fun to make predictions about what will happen in the film. In no particular order I predict the following.

The mother of Tina and Queenie was murdered by the Second Salemers, probably by Mary Lou herself, when they were children. There will be a flashback to this which shows a young Tina witnessing it. Queenie will have been probably too young to remember.

Jacob will be memory wiped at the end but he will be given the consolation prize of the bakery he has always wanted.

The film will end with Newt sailing off in an echo of how he comes to New York at the start on a boat.

Mermaids will be seen swimming in the ocean.

Initially there will be antagonism between Newt and Tina which will of course turn to the beginnings of attraction as they have to work together to catch the beasts. There will be a romantic parting scene.

There will also be attraction between Queenie and Jacob.

As it says on Pottermore that Macusa has the death penalty Newt and co will be threatened with this due to breaching Secrecy.

Jacob will be the only token sympathetic No Maj. Mary Lou is a twisted fanatic and Senator Henry Shaw Jr is a humourless puritan.

No Maj media will be reporting upon the strange incidents in New York.

Newt and Tina are characterised as introverts. Newt is possibly ISTP and Tina ISTJ.

Queenie and Jacob are extroverts. As a Legilimens Queenie is probably an Intuitive and uses extraverted Feeling and so I suspect she is ENFJ. As the everyman experiencing a new world I think Jacob will be a Sensor. I also think he uses extraverted Feeling too. So I would probably go for ESFJ but ESFP is also a possibility.

We might not see much of Grindelwald in the first film but I think he will turn out to be an ENTJ.

The Barebones will probably be introverted. Mary Lou will most likely be a very negative ISTJ. Charity may be a less extreme version of the same type. Credence is probably an intuitive introvert. Modesty is good at doing things behind her mother's back and throws away her posters. The description they used when auditioning the part makes her sound like an intuitive.

Henry Shaw Sr and Jr are probably domineering extroverts.
10-26-2016 11:34 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
Nice backstory in this article about Dumbledore and Grindelwald and how it might play out by the end of the five-film Fantastic Beasts franchise:
"Is Fantastic Beasts Leading to the Famous Dumbledore/Grindelwald Duel?"
http://nerdist.com/is-fantastic-beasts-l...wald-duel/

Spoiler Free review from Mugglenet:

http://www.mugglenet.com/2016/11/welcome...asts-find/

Lots of SPOILERS including some new magical ideas in this review from Screencrush:

http://screencrush.com/fantastic-beasts-...em-review/

11-13-2016 09:58 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
"Is Fantastic Beasts the antidote to our alpha-male superhero addiction?"

https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblo...lpha-males

Quote:In this Trumpian age, JK Rowling’s return to the wizarding world of Harry Potter magicks up a gentler, less ostentatious heroic template

Versus movies are all the rage right now, after the lost son of Krypton took on Gotham’s dark knight in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and Iron Man went 10 bloody rounds with Steve Rogers’ patriotic superhero in Captain America: Civil War. So why not take it to the next level? I want to see the gloriously unpretentious team from JK Rowling’s marvelous new wizarding fantasy Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them lining up against Marvel and DC’s top colorfully costumed goliaths, if only because it might tell us something about Hollywood’s rapidly shifting definition of heroism in 2016.

In the red, white and blue corner, we might have Captain America, 6ft and 200lb of muscular superhero brawn in the shape of star Chris Evans. And perhaps Batfleck himself, a whopping 6ft4in and 228lb of brutally Herculean dark knight of Gotham.

Over on the other side of the ring? Yes, it’s Britain’s slender Eddie Redmayne (aka tweedy wizard Newt Scamander) – who one suspects has never visited a gym in his life – alongside Brooklyn-born actor Dan Fogler, who plays cuddly New York muggle (OK, No-Maj) Jacob Kowalski in Fantastic Beasts. The bell has only just been rung for round one, but what’s this? It looks like Rowling’s noobs are already on top. (...)

"Why Fantastic Beasts is a trump card for progressive youth"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...sive-youth

Quote:JK Rowling’s expansion of the Harry Potter universe shows just how deeply those under 30 are steeped in the values of tolerance and progressivism

This time last week, many of us took comfort in a map. It showed how 18-25 year olds voted in the US presidential election. The landmass was a sea of blue, as most opted for Hillary Clinton. This, some declared, shows the future will be different. The turnout for Trump among everyone else – including some ethnic minorities – was bewildering, but such a trend can’t endure. Coming elections are secure for the left, because those who vote will be younger and wiser.

To which others, myself included, rolled our eyes wearily. Such maps, we explained, were ever the case. Everyone gets more rightwing as they get older. Hopes had to be dashed.

Then I saw Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and realised I was wrong. What people of my generation and older often fail to appreciate is the depth of indoctrination of tolerance for anyone under 30. Their literature, their cinema, all sings from the same hymn sheet. Harry Potter, X-Men, The Hunger Games, Twilight are all progressive propaganda. Fantastic Beasts, JK Rowling’s surprisingly delightful expansion of the Harry Potter universe, makes it even more explicit. It is a cautionary tale about the risks of repressing your inner nature. It sounds a clarion call for increased integration, including the abolition of a ban on Muggle/Wizard relationships. It shows how proto-dictators must be voted out before, like President Snow in The Hunger Games, they seize power and rescind our liberties. (...)

"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.
Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open."
(Dumbledore in 'Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire')


[Image: blazon-color-cpcc2-av.gif]
I trust Severus Snape
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2016 07:33 PM by Serpentine.)
11-17-2016 07:28 PM
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Silver Ink Pot Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
I haven't been to see the movie yet - going next weekend after Thanksgiving - but I have an ebook of the script. It's really much more interesting than I expected, so I'm pleasantly surprised. Several plot twists and new facts about the Beasts themselves too.

About how this movie fits into the Grindelwald/Voldemort Timeline:
https://www.hp-lexicon.org/2016/11/20/in...timelines/

11-22-2016 11:28 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie
Here's an interesting theory that Credence might somehow be Snape's grandfather! His adopted name is Barebone, but his real name might be Prince.

However, Credence would have to (A) survive after his Obscurus was destroyed and (B) would have to be a Pureblood since Snape is the "Half-Blood Prince." So take all this with a grain of salt. Mary Lou Barebone only mentioned that Credence's mother was magical, not his father. And he would have to somehow make it to England - maybe in Newt's suitcase?

https://www.inverse.com/article/24502-fa...dad-theory

I'm sure we're going to see many more theories about Credence as time goes by. IF he survived, which right now isn't too likely.

(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 12:06 AM by Silver Ink Pot.)
12-10-2016 12:03 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie(s)
It was announced today that the title of the second Fantastic Beasts movie and book will be - tada! ...

Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald

Interesting that both the characters of Jacob and Credence will be returning. It's not clear how they will bring them back, however.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/fantas...202616420/

Warner Bros. has unveiled the first photo and title for the “Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them” sequel: “Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald.”

The second film in the “Harry Potter” prequel franchise will be released on Nov. 16, 2018. David Yates, who directed “Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them” and the final four “Potter” installments, is returning to helm the second film in the series from a script by “Harry Potter” creator J.K. Rowling. The spinoff franchise will consist of five films.

Rowling, David Heyman, Steve Kloves, and Lionel Wigram are producing. The movie will see the return of stars Eddie Redmayne as magical zoologist Newt Scamander, Katherine Waterston as Tina, Alison Sudol as Queenie, Dan Fogler as Jacob, Ezra Miller as Credence, Zoë Kravitz as Leta Lestrange, and Johnny Depp as dark wizard Gellert Grindelwald.

Jude Law is portraying future Hogwarts headmaster Albus Dumbledore, who orders his former student Newt Scamander to capture Grindelwald. Filming began in July.

“Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them,” set in the 1920s in New York City, was released last November and grossed $814 million worldwide. Warner Bros. has not yet revealed when the third, fourth, and fifth films will be released.

11-17-2017 03:12 AM
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Ellen Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Fantastic Beasts ~ The Movie(s)
I am (tentatively) taking back some complaints I've had about the first movie. When Fantastic Beasts came out, I thought all the movies were going to have a U.S. setting. So, things that didn't seem quite right in the first film bothered me not just because they were off but because I was assuming these were things that were going to become bigger, more detailed--and more wrong--as the series developed.

However, now I've read that the next movie is set in France. If the focus is turning away from the U.S. wizarding world, I can let these things go.

It's a bit like when I read a story years ago where the author normally set things in New York but he'd decided to go out west for this one to an area I was familiar with--and it was pretty obvious the author had just taken New York, put fake glasses and plastic nose on it, and told it to say it was "the West." There wasn't anything hideously wrong. There just wasn't anything really right.

It was a relatively short story and the setting (fortunately) wasn't that important to it. If this is all we're going to see of magical U.S., I can let these complaints go, too.

Edited to Add: OK, maybe let them go is more than I can manage, but I can file them under "minor irritations" instead of "Ranting and Raving Worthy."
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 04:26 AM by Ellen.)
12-08-2017 04:24 AM
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